The Secret Sauce Podcast
Helping people build big businesses & live big lives - one ingredient at a time. That's our mission. Welcome to the Secret Sauce Podcast.
The Secret Sauce Podcast
Is It Quitting Time? Making the Hard Choice in Real Estate and Mortgage
Facing the harsh reality of today's real estate and mortgage landscape requires honest self-assessment. The statistics are staggering—70% of licensed realtors didn't close a single deal last year, while only 6% truly thrived. On the mortgage side, just 4% of loan officers closed over $20 million, with more than half closing fewer than six loans all year. These numbers reflect an unprecedented industry contraction that's pushing professionals to a critical decision point.
"Quitting isn't failure and staying isn't success. It's about making the best decision for your future." This powerful perspective forms the cornerstone of our discussion about whether to persist or pivot in challenging markets. For those considering staying, the benefits are substantial: increased credibility from surviving tough times, competitive advantage through experience, and opportunities to capture market share as others exit. The professionals who view current challenges as opportunities rather than obstacles are positioning themselves to thrive when others merely survive.
However, we also explore valid reasons why leaving might be the right choice. If you've lost your passion and can't seem to reignite it, clients will sense your diminished enthusiasm. If you're unwilling to adapt to technological advancements or evolving strategies, you'll likely fall behind regardless of experience. Perhaps most importantly, if your career no longer aligns with your personal goals, health needs, or family priorities, there's no shame in seeking a better fit elsewhere.
The key question isn't whether to stay or go—it's whether your work energizes or depletes you. Does it align with the life you want to create? Does it still bring you joy? Life is simply too short to persist in a career that consistently drains your energy and conflicts with your values. Whether you choose to innovate and adapt within the industry or pursue a completely different path, make that decision intentionally rather than defaulting to comfort or fear.
What's your experience with the current market? Have you questioned your place in the industry? We'd love to hear your thoughts and help you navigate this challenging crossroad.
It is no secret that over the past few years, the mortgage industry, the real estate industry, has gotten really, really hard. There's been what we would call probably a mass exodus in both industries, and if you've even thought about it, chances are you have. If you've even thought about is this still for me? Do I still belong in this industry? If that's you, then this episode is for you. This is the Secret Sauce Podcast with Chad Treese and Lacey Moores, where we want to help people build big businesses and live big lives, and we think that there's not a magic bullet for doing that, but there is a secret sauce.
Speaker 1:So a lot of these are going to be just the ingredients that can help you make up a secret sauce to build a big business and live a big life. Let's get into it. Welcome back everybody to the Secret Sauce Podcast. I'm Chad Treese here, as always, with my lovely co-host, lacey Morris. How are you, lacey?
Speaker 2:Good, I'm excited. I am too.
Speaker 1:I am too. So we're talking today a little bit about just a mass exodus in both industries. Real estate, mortgage Things have gotten really hard the last few years. There's tons of stats out there of how many people aren't doing business, how little business people are doing.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of doom and gloom. There's a lot of people wondering am I still in love with this? Should I still be doing this thing? And so I think we want to break it down today like reasons to stay, just to check in with yourself, reasons to stay, reasons maybe possibly to go. I don't know, know, we may talk about that, but um is it quitting time is it quitting time?
Speaker 2:yeah, every time I hear that uh, quitting time, I think of keith whitley song and I just want to sing it right now, but I'll save everybody because it's bad for those listening uh, she's made us listen to it in the in the studio here, um so fun a few times and she keeps singing it.
Speaker 2:She won't sing it on air, but she's singing 1985 is when this song by Keith Whitley came out. And is it quitting time? Um, and I just like the song myself, but, um, yeah, the episode really today is is is it? And? And really I just want to say it might be okay either way. Right, sure, like we're not going to talk about you're a loser if you quit or you're only you're, you know all that stuff. Like we want to talk about it both ways. I think when we go through this, um, and just I mean you already said you're, you know all that stuff. Like we want to talk about it both ways, I think when we go through this, and just I mean you already said like we're in a challenging market.
Speaker 1:We have been for a while, and I don't think it's going to get, I don't think anything's coming to save us. Yeah Right, sure, it's going to be difficult for a while, sure.
Speaker 2:Well, you and I have mortgage for a long time. We both went through the mortgage meltdown and went through all of that, so we've been through some hard markets and we've seen some really great markets come back and whatnot.
Speaker 2:And this has been hard for all different reasons than it was hard back in 08 and 09 and whatnot completely different reasons. But I mean, even our owner will say this is way harder than it was back in 2008, 2009, which when he said that to me the first time I was like didn't think it was, but once he started throwing all the stats and stuff around, it really is.
Speaker 1:We've just gotten better, so like that's why it? I think it is harder now. We don't feel it quite as much because we sharpened our ax in 2008, when that happened live through that. Learn from it. So the second time around it always does feel a little bit easier, but I would agree that it's statistically it is harder.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so let's talk about statistics, and I brought this just so I can read it, so I don't mess it up because I'm known for messing up statistics. But on the real estate side, in 2024, 70% of all licensed realtors didn't close a deal 70%.
Speaker 1:70%.
Speaker 2:So now we're down to 30. And out of the 30 that did, 30% of them, I'm sorry 30 did. And out of the 30%, 20% of them closed less than 10 transactions all year. 4% of the remaining 10% closed enough just to cover their dues and their expenses, which means everything else was done by only six percent so six percent thrived.
Speaker 1:Basically exactly 94 either. Just got by jack you know what yeah it's. It's a little scary, but it also is like it's again. It's kind of doing doom and gloom, but there is excitement. Excitement here there is, there is opportunity with this.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of opportunity and that that's what we're going to kind of talk through. And it really depends on when you hear those things where your heart goes Like some people get excited and see it as great opportunity and some people are like, oh, not this again.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I don't want to do this again and it's it's really self-reflection of when you hear some of this stuff. Where do you, what do you feel? You know, where do you go with that? On the loan officer side, 4% of all loan officers in 2024 closed 20 million or more, and 20 million used to be not that much right, like if we go back and we think about the last two, three, four years, and only 4% and over 50% of loan officers didn't even close six loans all year.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's crazy, but even in good markets there's always that 90-10 rule or 80-20 rule? But now it's even further on display, it is For sure.
Speaker 2:There's definitely.
Speaker 2:You can see that separation, separation totally the differential, the gap, for sure, um, yeah, I think it, it totally is fine. Um, so, you know, we've been in the shrinking industry and shrinking industry obviously does all kinds of things um to us emotionally, obviously does all kinds of things to us emotionally. And what are we looking for here? Let's talk about some reasons why people should stay. What are some benefits to staying in a shrinking market? What are some things that the good right Like where, if you can, I mean when we went, started going through this, our coaching program said made us print off a big sheet that said outlast everyone.
Speaker 1:Hat. Yeah, I got a hat that says outlast the temporary. Yeah, yeah, outlast everyone.
Speaker 2:It was our strategy, and it was behind my computers the whole time, and it's something I had to focus on. All the time was just outlast. Now, when we did that, we didn't think we'd be outlasting for this long, you know, we didn't think it would last this long, but now we're starting to get used to it. Right, we're starting to get used to that this is more the norm than what we ever thought. So the thing is, though, you know, when you go through these struggles we just talked about us going through 08 and 09, and even, and going through this now, what did that do Like? What do you think that did for you, as a mortgage professional, being able to do that? What does it do for you now?
Speaker 1:Well, it gives you definitely that, not just hope, but that confidence that you can thrive in that market that you can continue to invest in yourself, continue to get better, continue to pour into people. And there's still business being done. It's being done by less people, but why not? Why not? Why aren't you in that percent of people right that are doing it right well?
Speaker 2:when you go through something like this and maybe you didn't go through it like we did back in 08 09 because you weren't in the business that long, but it gives you more credibility, right, like people trust you more once you survive hard times like that and when you and I I were talking about it, you brought up like your you know. When you talk to your grandparents about the Great Depression, you know and and how they survived that.
Speaker 1:And how it changed their worldview. Right Like like oh, they saved differently, they did different things. So it does shape who you become if you survive through that.
Speaker 1:It does shape who you become. There's lessons to be learned. Become if you survive through that. It does shape who you become. There's lessons to be learned, and so I think there's a lot of lessons out there that for the people who choose to stay, who don't quit, there are a lot of lessons to be learned, a lot of things that you can take from this and really thrive with so well it increases your competitive advantage.
Speaker 2:Right, right, like it. Just it highlights the credibility that you have now and what you know through this. You know when I go and I'm speaking with somebody about their mortgage and I talk about 08-09 and kind of what we're going through now, I'm able to draw that picture, I'm able to make them understand the economics behind it and the credibility is huge. You know to them when they are putting their trust into us. So I like that. I think the trust piece is just really important and it allows us to help grow a market share and I think that's the biggest piece right now that you know people who are not going to quit and people who are going to stay. This is opportunity. This is market share time.
Speaker 1:Yeah challenge, like whenever challenges occur, stuff like this, this is a challenge. We're in a very challenging market. If you look at that as the, that's the opportunity, that's where the growth occurs, that's where, like, as long as you don't say stagnant, as long as you don't sit and wait, I I that's why I kind of didn't love the outlast temporary, because it outlasting is not an action, it's not taking action. Yeah, it's kind of resting. Yeah, hoping that it gets better, it's waiting for things. So I didn't love that tagline. I'll be completely honest, I don't wear that hat. Um it, just it didn't do it for me.
Speaker 1:I think that, like, people waiting to outlast this are not in that percentage of people who are thriving in it right now, right Like embrace the challenge and get better, sharpen your sword, uh like, do all the things that it takes, grow, learn, and there is business to be had. And there's few people, fewer and fewer people. People are leaving in droves, right, so go get that business that they were going to get. Go get the business that they were going to close for their aunt. They closed maybe one deal a year, like their aunt now needs to be served right, like those onesie, twosies people that are getting out people got to go serve those people.
Speaker 2:Why not you? Right, why not you? And why not be part of that group that's taking more of that share, more of that market share? Uh, being part of the group that we just said. That is the separation right, like your business is going to only separate when you do that. So, um, it's exciting, I mean it's, it's a lot of opportunity. I had just had a coaching call a couple of days ago and I he said how's your mindset? Like where are you doing it right now? I'm like I am excited, like I really really am. So let's talk about reasons that people would quit or, um, why it might be okay to quit.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's. I think that's worth discussing, Like we're not trying to talk everybody into staying. Yeah Right.
Speaker 2:Right and and. Well, let's just address this. So you know, for me, when I think about quitting, I think about being a loser.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the connotation right Winners never quit, quitters never win.
Speaker 2:Right and I think about there's just so much negative around it. But I want to kind of unpack that. I want to talk about, um, why would there be reasons to quit Right, and you kind of already had said it earlier too. But, man, you know, if you show up every single day, what'd you say If you show up every single day and just hate it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, If you wait, I think I think it was even if you wake up in the morning and you just dread it, if you're like what the hell am I doing? More often than not, then it's probably a pretty good sign that you either need to find that passion again, or maybe there's something else out there that you have more passion for, and that's perfectly okay.
Speaker 2:Well, I think you hit it on the head there. One great reason it might be time to quit is if you have lost your passion. Or if you've lost your passion, try to find it and you just can't anymore. Because if you're not there, if you don't love it, people know it, people feel it. It's not enjoyable for you, people don't enjoy working with you like it. It, the passion piece I think, is so important and you're not going to have passion every single day, like we got to be clear that it's not going to be this, just rainbows and butterflies every single day in this industry. It's stressful, but do you really thoroughly enjoy what it is that you're doing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's kind of your default setting? I guess you know what's the majority of the time how do you feel about it Right?
Speaker 2:And then the other reason would, potentially, if you're not willing to adapt you know we are in a ever-changing environment and if you don't have the ability or the desire to adapt and I think that this is such a big key and most people don't want to go here Most people don't want to look at themselves and decide I mean, even you and I, you know, when we were talking about doing this podcast like that's out of our comfort zone and you know, does that instantly stop and say no to you? Or are you somebody that's constantly looking? Is there things I could do better in my business? Is there ways for me to grow? And if there's not, it could be time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or if you're just not passionate about growing in that thing, right. It goes back to passion again, like, if you're unwilling to it probably is because you're not passionate about it, you don't love it, like, uh, but yeah, if you're unwilling to adapt, um, we talked about this a little bit, but when I first got in the industry we were super young there was a gal in the office who was at the very tail end of her career and she just uh, demanded that she would not use technology, she would not use a computer, she wanted to do all of her applications on paper. And I just remember thinking like man, what a dinosaur, right. And um, it was definitely quitting time for her and she did not last much longer after that Her their business was just like tailing off. You could tell she was bitter about the change in the industry and was not going to adapt to it. And now I look at it and I'm like man, we're the kind of those dinosaurs, being 23 years in the business.
Speaker 1:So now it's like I guess the equivalent of that is like that we're not, like don't want to go do TikTok dances right, you know, to get business.
Speaker 2:I don't either I probably.
Speaker 1:I mean maybe that's, maybe that's that version of that for me is like okay, I don't think that I need to do that, but it's a very good reminder to think of that and be like do I want to be her?
Speaker 2:yeah um, because this industry will push you out pretty fast yeah, well, it's ever-changing and I mean, you got to be able to adapt to marketing strategies, to technology, all that kind of stuff that's going on out there. And if you're not, if you mean if you're relying on outdated strategies like cold calling, you know only, I'm not saying that's not a bad thing, there's sometimes that we do cold calling but if you haven't, you know, changed that approach, yeah, you're gonna be left in and you know, say that the dinosaur. And yeah, I laugh at that because I think naturally that's what happens. You're like we can't help that, um, and it's funny. Now, as you become more of a dinosaur, you look back and you're like, oh, now, now I understand why they acted that way, um, but it doesn't always make it right.
Speaker 1:Most of the time it doesn't make it right yeah. Most of the time, like that fear of that change, uh, is what eventually will push you out? You've you lose that passion you like, dig your heels in on something, your business falls off of a cliff because of it, and like you're not just making the decision that it's quitting time, like the business has kind of quit you.
Speaker 2:Well, let's talk. So you and I both get coached by our owner, todd, and he and he shared this with both you and I about his time with Alex. Yeah, this blew me away I don't know, take it off and all.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, so he, Alex Ramosi right, is a big time like influencer and also like business guru.
Speaker 2:Buys a bunch of businesses, help people invest in their businesses.
Speaker 1:Worth many, many, many millions. Yes, right, and Todd's net worth is about double his, and he's also about double in age, I think. So conventional wisdom would tell you that.
Speaker 2:Todd probably wouldn't be seeking advice from Alex.
Speaker 1:Hermosi, wisdom or pride. Well, conventional, just like the conventional wisdom Thought process.
Speaker 1:Like most people would be like, yeah, he's probably not going to hit him up for what he's doing, todd being the very smart businessman that he is. And the lesson here is like do not overlook people that are younger than you, that have less than you. If they're doing something well, take note of that. You can learn. And he actually paid a buttload of money to go learn from him, not just like call him up and ask him for advice. He paid a buttload of money to go be in the crowd and learn from him and he doesn't need that advice.
Speaker 1:Like legitimately, he could retire yesterday right, but he's just got on this like relentless pursuit of improvement and so like that's not everybody, I get that, but like that's a very extreme example. But it was a great reminder for me that like man check my ego.
Speaker 2:And that's a great example. Like so somebody that you, you know you just never would think that, and if he's willing to do that, then why wouldn't I like? Shame on me for not. You know what I mean For for not looking at different areas that I can, people, I can learn from younger people how to adapt what's working right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Never think that, you know at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, it was really really good. He's, he's amazing. But yeah, I do think that you know we have to. Um, you know, if you're somebody that is not willing to change, or heck, even waiting for the old market to come back, yeah Right, Just sit and wait and thinking that it's going to come back, like if that's who you are and you're not, like might be time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I don't know if it needs any more explanation than that, but absolutely One hundred percent, if you're just waiting for things to get better, like that is not a good place to be and like you're not passionate about that.
Speaker 2:OK. So another reason you might want to quit and I love this, this one and is you know what if the industry no longer aligns with your personal goals, like if you're, if you no longer your life goals, your family goals, your health goals and I think people don't stop enough to think about that, like if it no longer aligns, and I think people don't stop enough to think about that, like if it no longer aligns, maybe it is quitting time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean a hundred percent agree with that. I think it still goes back to like, if you wake up and you question, should I be doing this thing, then like, yeah, part of that's passion. Another one is like this doesn't feel authentic to me anymore. This doesn't feel like you're not going to have passion for it. I think that those go hand in hand. You're not gonna have passion for it if your values have shifted a little bit and you, like a good example, would be like you want to be at every event with your kids, you want to pick them up from school, you want to be able to drop them off, you want to do, like, every little thing you may not be able to do, what this job entails as a full-time gig, to treat it like a business.
Speaker 1:For some people they can. They can do all those things. For other people they can't, and you need to recognize that and that's okay. Yeah, if it's totally not aligned with what you envision for your life, then get the heck out and go do something that you love, something you get excited about every day.
Speaker 2:And that would fit into that schedule or your health or whatever it is. You know, if this industry is is hard because of the ups and downs and the stress and it's causing you health issues yeah, if you got heart issues, this is not.
Speaker 1:This industry is not for the faint of heart, right?
Speaker 2:so that's a great example actually or you know what, if you're only staying in the industry out of habit, you know because you don't know what that other future could be you don't know any different I've heard so many people.
Speaker 2:I've done it for 20 years. I might as well just keep doing it. Um, if that's the only reason in all these other things that we've talked about, you're like is that's resonating with you, like it might be time. I wanted to read this and I wrote this down. I heard this and I just it's's really, really good and I want to share it. Quitting isn't failure and staying isn't success.
Speaker 1:It's about making the best decision for your future. Yeah, when you read that the first time, I think I had you read it again because it's it's a super, it is super powerful. Can you read it again?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can it just yeah, it's so different than anything I've ever wrapped my brain around with quitting. Yeah, read it again Quitting isn't failure and staying isn't success. It's about making the best decision for your future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, beautiful, beautifully said, and I think that that's probably where we can wrap this episode. Just remember that it is absolutely not a failure If this is no longer aligned with all of the things that you love, like if this, if you don't love it anymore and you can't get to a place where you love it, uh, or you can't get to a place where it brings you joy or adds energy. I think for me it's a big like does it add energy or does it take energy? Does it suck energy from me? If the answer to that question is does this suck energy from you every day or most days, then don't. It is fine to go find something else that does give you more energy. Life is too short to live a life that is not, by design, what you want right, so.
Speaker 2:So reflect on your goals and your passion and your willingness right to adapt, and if it's not like, it's okay. Yeah, and we'd love. We'd love to chat with you. You, if you guys ever want to talk through this or anything like that chat, I both would be more than willing to get on a call or whatever and talk through either either side of this, because there's no right or wrong to it. But it is just really reflecting on who. That is, who you are and what you're wanting out of the rest of the time that you have here.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Lacey. Great, great topic. I'm glad you brought it up because I don't think I would have thought of it. But man, I'm glad we talked about it. Hopefully everybody listening got something from it as well, If you did share it with somebody, or like take a, take a snapshot, take a screenshot and tag us in it. Whatever it is, however, you can share it with somebody. We would love, love it, but we're glad you were here. We'll see you soon. Thanks, guys, thanks.
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